A not-so-rave review for Ravine.
Medieval fantasy novels have been done to death. Unless you have something new to add to the genre--by which, I mean it contains absolutely none of the tropes present in Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, Dungeons and Dragons, or Eye of the World--you had best leave it be.
"But wait!" you protest. "That's everything I know about Medieval fantasy!"
Yeah, and it's everything we know already, too. So cut it out. Seriously. Give your readers some credit. Assume they've read at least 10% of the fantasy books that you have, and plan your world accordingly. Because I was literally ticking off things on my fingers, like, "I bet this guy played WoW in college. I bet he likes Peter Jackson. I bet his bookshelves are full of the three Terrys: Goodkind, Brooks, and Pratchett."
(After a while, I got bored, and started ticking off the phallic objects. Penis-shaped castle, penis-shaped rock, penis-shaped halberd, penis-shaped sword, penis-shaped tree, penis-shaped dragon. This, too, soon got boring. Then I just started skimming pages.)
Can't you just taste the snark?
Okay, I'll say something nice. The graphics in Ravine are unique in the sense that some of the illustrations look almost like photographs, whereas other scenes blend into a rather typical semi-real backdrop with less real backgrounds typical of computer games like Runescape and World of Warcraft. The full-page illustrations depicting various metal symbols were especially lovely. At first I was impressed by the artwork--and I still am, even though it has a slightly amateurish quality, like something you might see on Deviant Art (note: OMG. APPARENTLY HE IS ON DEVIANTART)--but after a while I got the sense that the artwork was intended to distract the reader from the convoluted and derivative storyline.
Also, just once, could we have a fantasy novel written by a dude that takes place in a medieval world that is not completely penis-centric and does not hyper-sexualize women?
I have literally just seen more boob than I did in the girls' locker rooms back in high school PE. He gets bonus points for actually making female armor that covers all the vital organs, because you would be surprised how many artists don't. You really would.
Apart from that, I just can't say much in this book's favor. Why? Because all the tropes are here. Enigmatic black dude from lands far away who has equally enigmatic advice. Baby-faced rogue-boy who's our (*sigh*) well-meaning but naive protagonist. A girl who wants to be able to fight like the men-folk, dammit! A frail and beautiful princess who is as wise as she is lovely (*sigh*). Tongue in cheek gods. Heavy emphasis on Norse and Celtic mythology. Names with lots of L's and Z's. Dragons. People who have special relationships with dragons. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Next.
1.5 to 2 out of 5 stars.
Curious. Do you even like fantasy novels?
ReplyDeleteI do, actually. On Goodreads, 400 of the 2,100+ books I've read are fantasy.
DeleteI'm kind of wondering where the 'girl who wants to be able to fight like the men-folk' is? It seems in this universe that the women DO fight like the menfolk, that it's accepted and not controversial to characters in the least. I'm not sure the rogue-boy is so very naive, either, considering that he's apparently destroyed an entire city in his past. And I'm not seeing the frail princess at all?
ReplyDeleteI'm failing to see the connections with Norse or Celtic mythology; his gods are an original pantheon so far as I can tell.
There is far less boob than in most comics, the boobs are significantly smaller and not on display all the time (I note that Arianna wears an armored breastplate that is completely flat and doesn't even show her boobs at all). Did we even read the same graphic novel?
I will agree that Ravine was much better about handing gender roles and sexism than other graphic-novels and even other fantasy novels as a whole.
DeleteHowever, RE Norse, Celtic, Greek mythos:
There's a sense of the Camelot mythology with all the knights and the dragons. There's also the fact that the fae/godlike beings initially inhabited Earth before being transplanted by various wars/humans (from Celtic myth).
As for Greek and Nordic, well, there are a lot of parallels between the texts we read in my college mythology class and what I read here. The names, but also their level of involvement with humans, and even their backstories, were very similar.
Clearly, we did read the same book but had different reactions to it: therein lies the very marvel of subjective opinion.
Of course! I'm just a little mystified at where you are coming from with some of your criticism. To be honest if I was to draw a comparison, it would be between Damanul and some of the Cthulhu mythos, and that's only because of the visual weirdness and immensity of the buried god. Aertes is a goddess of Fate, but other than that being her title, I don't see the parallels.
DeleteDelphi has snakes for hair, bringing up the image of Medusa certainly, but her role and backstory do not seem to parallel Medusa's at all.
As far as I can tell, the Eani fae-types were not in fact the predecessors of the humans, but came out of the Ravine at the same time that the dragons did. I could be confused about this, but that was my understanding. Humans and war had nothing to do with transplanting them; in fact the Eani are still a normal and active part of society as shown in the novel.
Ravine, according to the index, is actually a continent called Harrak, which was inhabited by (at least) humans before the Ravine actually appeared, at which point the dragons and Eani and who knows what else, came crawling up out of it in an 'Exodus' from the Old World which may or may not be an entirely different universe/Plane of existence/other.
DeleteSejac is an enthusiast of Norse Mythology though so it isn't unsurprising to find an inspiration there. There's very little Camelot Myth here. Maybe in the naming of magical weapons but Excalibur doesn't really compare here. Aertas isn't the lady and the Faetree isn't the lake, its much to generous and giving, not picky with anything save the Grimlas weapons on the top.
I have to ask though who is 'A frail and beautiful princess who is as wise as she is lovely' there is literally no one in the narrative that fits this description. I've read the book twice and there are hardly even any women who aren't armored, armed and on dragonback.
Honestly, I think you're coming in to this comic looking for things to rage about with this comic. You are trying to make Sejic off as some sort of misogynistic creep with the way you describe him.
ReplyDeleteLet's start with your penis-centric world. If we're going to talk about a male dominant civilization, then we'll turn back to the Song of Ice and Fire series, which REVOLVES around a clearly male dominant culture. Men fight, women baby make. It's VERY male-dominant, and he aimed for his cultures to be like that.
Stjepan goes a route with females that are soldiers and ride dragons. He's got a female veteran amputee who got injured in combat and the main female Lynn is a trained rider. And yet you argue that they're trying to be like the men? This society clearly has a history of female warriors (and there is even more lore in the back) and you try to argue that it's penis centric?
And where is the frail princess? Are you talking about Calisto, who threw herself between her father and lover in battle and sacrificed her life to save him? Yeah, real frail.
Now back on the subject of penises, where are you seeing them? Do you actually actively hunt out phallic shaped objects to enforce an opinion? Sejic is a man who had to study medieval and Gothic architecture in college. His buildings are heavily based on that. I am legitimately not seeing the number of penises you are squinting to see.
As for boobs... seriously? What are you going off of? His women are fully armored There is not even a large amount of cleavage. These women are up to their necks in mail. Or are you just complaining that there are a gratuitous amount of women in general and the swell of a breast enrages you? I'm genuinely curious here. I mean, Stjepan is a man who draws fully naked breasts in other works, and there isn't so much as a hint of bare cleavage here.
And the deviantart comment, you use that site to describe amateurism. That's... that's kind of rude, really. I was getting a few chuckles out of your review until I ran in to this, and then I just got irritated. Do you know how many professionals are on Deviantart? To name a few, we have Craig McCracken, creator of Powerpuff Girls and Fosters' Home. We have Johane Matte, and several other animators from Nickelodeon and Dreamworks, professional artists working on games such as League of Legends or Assassins' Creed, and so on and so forth. Deviantart is a huge community of artists of varying skills, and the fact that you look down upon the whole of it as 'amateurish' is just plain rude to the community in general. If you think that Stjepan's art is considered 'amateur', I would like to see what you consider good then.
Seeing as you simply skimmed over the comic instead of taking the time to read it and understand the characters (i'm assuming that's where you came up with the frail princess) I am having a rough time taking this review seriously. At least you admitted you didn't read the whole thing, I'll give you that much, but frankly, you clearly didn't get any information out of your brief flip through. Please at least take the time to read the comics without any sort of lingering feelings (and maybe a bit more thoroughly than you did with this one) before you decide to pick it apart.
I did read the whole thing, actually, and only skimmed the last ten pages, but I appreciate your concern. I'm sure the artist does too.
DeleteAs per the Deviantart comment, I'm sorry you see that as rude, but that says more about you than about me, as I personally don't see it as an insult. In any case, I thought the artist might appreciate an increase in traffic as people can go look at his site via my blog and check out his art for themselves before buying the comic. By amateur, I mean that I got a "first comic" vibe from this effort, with the art being slightly uneven in quality and better than the story. I'm sorry you see it differently.
I appreciate your opinion, but please don't give me instructions on how to formulate mine, as that is just petty and rude. Since you seem to take offence with most of what I had to say here, I suggest we end on a positive note, or at least a neutral one, and simply agree to disagree. We have different lenses through which we view the fantasy genre and that's perfectly fine.
Thank you for stopping by.
thanx for the additional traffic XD
DeleteNo problem! Seems like you have quite a fanbase. :)
Deletedraw wnough dragons and hot looking people and...'tis inevitable XD
DeleteOkay, look, the only thing I was really seriously bothered by was the Deviantart thing. And to be fair, your exact quote was: "it has a slightly amateurish quality, like something you might see on Deviant Art" and then proceeded to prove your point that he is 'amateurish' as you thought by linking his page in your blog. It was more of a 'lol see I am right' kind of statement.
DeleteIf not for being on Deviantart, i would not be the artist I am now. No artist ever fully reaches a pinnacle of masterdom, and having this site with so many fantastic resources being brushed aside as 'amateur' is just kind of a serious blow to my years of effort. I'm no means a professional, but I am much better than I would be if not for the people I have met on that website.
Also frankly, it's very hard to believe you didn't do more than skim as there is no fair and weak princess and your description of the society is completely off. Seriously. Name me the frail princess.
I get that this comic is not for you. I'm not going to urge to you that you are wrong in not liking it. But I can easily say there, at the moment, is only one hyper-sexualized character, and that's because she is basically an embodiment of sin. I don't care if you get your panties in a twist about a little bit of tit. My grandmother is like that too. But hey, maybe it's because I am used to drawing nude life drawings that I am less phased.
But come on. You're mad that there are boobs on women in this comic. They're natural, regular things on ladies and a fact of life. And your bit about the penis towers was akin to Britta's Freudian personality tests in Community. You're trying to find reasons to be offended by this comic, and that is just funny in itself.
hi, stjepan sejic here, i got sent a link to this review, and while i literally laughed out loud at many parts (thank you for that) the one bit i could not left unanswered is...
ReplyDeleteI NEVER PLAYED WOW!
seriously, i was dirt poor in college XD who the hell could afford the monthly fees for that in croatia XD
now, personal opinions are what they are. i remember gutturally hating many books i now adore, so im also well aware taste is a changing beast.
Thank you for stopping by, and for being so classy about my review. I really like hearing back from the authors I review if they're nice about it! I'm sorry I didn't like your book more, but your art is fabulous--far more fabulous than mine will ever be. I especially liked the ones you did for the chapters' respective title pages.
DeleteI never played WoW, either. Partly because who had the time? I was more of a Runescape girl, anyway. It was free--and easier to navigate.
Thanks for stopping by!
no worries, we all like what we like. :) such is the nature of taste and free speech at the same time
DeleteWell said. :)
DeleteI'm sure your next comic will be much better. It certainly wasn't bad for a first book!
hey, i was the first one to say , ravine issue 1 is a mid tier book, by far the worst in the series ... too much setup too much world too much history too much everything. issue 2 is all about character development.
Deletei would appreciate if you gave it a chance then and try reading them both in line. i read on your profile that you write. then you will probably appreciate that archetypes are a fun thing to break :) and that is something i have done well before :). so i am curious to see if i am capable of changing your mind :)